WTF? : Updated

So, some dude in NYC goes and whacks his old boss. As he is leaving the scene, a pair of “New York’s finest” try and stop the guy, and in the process, pull out their heaters and miss the perp at least NINE TIMES and instead hit nine bystanders.

And now, Bloomberg gets to talk about “gun violence” and gets to use this as another excuse as to why I can’t carry a gun in NYC?

Really, WTF?


Here is the video from one of the many ground level security cameras around the Empire State Building.

You’ll see the perp enter from the top of the video walking along the outside of the planter bollards and then a couple seconds later you see the NYPD enter the frame running. The perp pulls his gun from his bag and points it at the officers, and the officers quickly draw and fire. As is plain, the distance of the shootout is between 5 and 20 feet. The perp looks to get one shot off and the officers get multiple shots off.

This report says that one officer got 7 shots off and the other got 9 off. Only 7 hit the perp. Each of the other 9 found “other targets”, per the NYPD. That is less than a 44% hit ratio, or more than a 56% miss ratio.

As Mollbot mentions in the comments below, I have never had to return fire at an active shooter at less than 20ft from me (I have at longer distances), however, I believe that my prior outside a range lane training would give me a better than 50% hit ratio.

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7 Responses to WTF? : Updated

  1. Rivrdog says:

    Yeah, this smelled bad when Bloomie started praising his rozzers before his detectives had finished with all the witnesses. In that situation, the cops should have held fire. Fox Nuz reported that the perp never pulled his gun until after the cops pulled theirs, and maybe not until they started shooting. Felons don’t have rights of self-defense, but there is never an excuse for cops to negligently wound civilians, either. Better that a murderer should escape his crime scene than a single civilian should be shot, let alone nine of them.

  2. Mollbot says:

    Add to this the NYPD’s claim that the gunplay occurred with 8 feet between the police and the killer. 16 shots fired from 8 feet, and 9 of them miss… I have never had to shoot “in real life” under the effects of adrenaline but that seems an awful percentage for such a short range.

  3. Bram says:

    I’ll bet the cop 2-handing it behind the planter got more hits – the one-handed cowboy got more civilians.

    I wonder what kind of ammo the NYPD uses and how many civilian hits passed-thru the suspect.

  4. Bill says:

    I’m impressed by the situational awareness and action of the guy on the bench closest to the perp. He is moving almost immediately.

    Tough shoot for the cops. Best laid battle plans rarely survive first contact with the enemy!

  5. Sulaco says:

    NYPD is using 115 grain Gold Dot +P JHP last I asked. They moved to this JHP after a shooting where they had numerous FMJ rounds (the age old) mandated carry ammo, punch through the perp, that was the last straw for the PC ammo poliicos to be able to void use of JHP even in NYC.

    “I believe that my prior outside a range lane training would give me a better than 50% hit ratio.”

    Doubt that, don’t happen in real life when leads flying. Shooting history is replete with gun fights at 3 feet where each shooter fires 5 rounds each and no one is hit. The only persons I ever met the were able to get that level of hits or higher were cops (and I knew one rather well before he quite, tired of gunfights and the media lynch mobs) that had been in mulitiple gun fights (Jim Cirilo (SP)) for one that got to the point that they don’t even get an elevated heart rate anymore when the guns came out.

  6. Rolf says:

    Looking at the time counter, it looks like the first cop draws and gets his gun up around the 0:09 sec mark, and the perp has dropped his stuff and starting to pitch forward and hits the ground at about 0:12. Three seconds from first shot to perp down, and the manage to expend 16 rounds. Either they were shooting VERY fast, or they were also firing after he was down (which is not always a totally bad or unnecessary thing, I realize, but still…)

    It’s hard to tell when exactly the more distant cop starts shooting, but from the look of it, his first rounds were pretty much zinging right past the other cop who was almost directly between him and the perp. He was moving both back and away. It’s a good thing Close Cop didn’t also get tagged with a misdirected shot from his partner; certainly it didn’t help his hearing any.

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